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GOURANGA! Forums > News > GTAzz News > GTA made them do it!

Post 1 \| New	Posted September 12th, 2003
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,785 Type: Administrator	Once again America's blame culture waves a finger about in a random gesture until it lands squarely on "someone else". Take 2 is being cited as a defendant in a lawsuit being pursued by the family of a man killed in a shooting accident. Apparently two teenagers opened fire on passing cars causing the death of one person and serious injury to another. The suit follows the usual "video games are evil, how can I rely on them to raise my kids if they're not all fluffy bunnies and high moral standards" rhetoric of a certain strand of American culture we can't seem to get shot of these days. One quote that did stand out, "They need to stop pushing adult rated products to kids", said by the family's attourney. Now I'm sure the Take2 marketing differs depending on the demographic, but in the UK the target is anything but kids. The few ads that did make it on tv were shown late in amongst adult material. I'd be interested to hear if the commercial break in your latest episode of Supermongous Giant Uber Heroes from Neptune was filled with ads for Mature rated games. Personally I see two stark questions coming from this case, and neither of them are "why oh why are the big bad video game makers allowed to depict violence". They are why did the parents of these teenagers (the eldest 16) allow them to get hold of a mature rated game and not monitor their use, and how the hell did the kids get hold of a loaded rifle? To me it screams negligent parenting, not negligent games marketing. But maybe that's just the viewpoint of an intolerant Brit? [source - TheRegister ] ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 1 | New

Posted September 12th, 2003

Azz
the barbarian. grrr

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,785
Type: Administrator

Once again America's blame culture waves a finger about in a random gesture until it lands squarely on "someone else".

Take 2 is being cited as a defendant in a lawsuit being pursued by the family of a man killed in a shooting accident. Apparently two teenagers opened fire on passing cars causing the death of one person and serious injury to another.

The suit follows the usual "video games are evil, how can I rely on them to raise my kids if they're not all fluffy bunnies and high moral standards" rhetoric of a certain strand of American culture we can't seem to get shot of these days.

One quote that did stand out, "They need to stop pushing adult rated products to kids", said by the family's attourney. Now I'm sure the Take2 marketing differs depending on the demographic, but in the UK the target is anything but kids. The few ads that did make it on tv were shown late in amongst adult material. I'd be interested to hear if the commercial break in your latest episode of Supermongous Giant Uber Heroes from Neptune was filled with ads for Mature rated games.

Personally I see two stark questions coming from this case, and neither of them are "why oh why are the big bad video game makers allowed to depict violence". They are why did the parents of these teenagers (the eldest 16) allow them to get hold of a mature rated game and not monitor their use, and how the hell did the kids get hold of a loaded rifle?

To me it screams negligent parenting, not negligent games marketing.

But maybe that's just the viewpoint of an intolerant Brit?

[source - TheRegister ]

------------------
azz.gouranga.com
est. 1998
(I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 2 \| New	Posted September 12th, 2003
maverickllama does not exist :. Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 744	Americans are idiots. Here in the U S of A, Kids don't find out about GTA3 and Vice City because of TV ads, etc. They find out by juvenile-quality game review magazines, the Internet, and their friends. ------------------ Azz wrote: Oh.. yeah, guns bad, ice cream good, the end.

Post 3 \| New	Posted September 13th, 2003
Ozmoziz Oz-mo-zi-z Joined: Aug '03 Posts: 663 Type: Banned	They're Idiots i tell's ya' they're idiots! ------------------

Post 4 \| New	Posted September 13th, 2003. Updated September 13th, 2003 (Yay...)
2na Beans, eating it! Joined: Feb '03 Posts: -97,249	Perhaps someone will post something reverent: It?s defiantly carelessness parenting, But because of that parents have no clue what the video games have in them, I don?t think my parents know I own vice city, and if I showed them it would be no worse then what I have seen on TV, Movies or even read in a Steven King book. Video games and vice city has become the scapegoat of choice in the year 2002/2003 for crimes, But there?s no substance behind there argument, I think any perent buying Vice for there under sixteen year old kid is defiantly using it as a crutch to lean on to shut the kid up, no matter what the content? Edit Whether that content is fluffy bunnies or half naked chicks getting blow to bits with rocket launchers... ------------------ I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 4 | New

Posted September 13th, 2003. Updated September 13th, 2003 (Yay...)

2na
Beans, eating it!

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: -97,249

Perhaps someone will post something reverent:

It?s defiantly carelessness parenting, But because of that parents have no clue what the video games have in them, I don?t think my parents know I own vice city, and if I showed them it would be no worse then what I have seen on TV, Movies or even read in a Steven King book.

Video games and vice city has become the scapegoat of choice in the year 2002/2003 for crimes, But there?s no substance behind there argument, I think any perent buying Vice for there under sixteen year old kid is defiantly using it as a crutch to lean on to shut the kid up, no matter what the content?

Edit

Whether that content is fluffy bunnies or half naked chicks getting blow to bits with rocket launchers...

------------------
I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 5 \| New	Posted September 13th, 2003
The Humungous Engine Builder Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 55	So if i were to go and play vice, kill a few peds then feel inspired to go do it in my car then i would be able to file a lawsuit against R* and take2. Is it just me that sees this as more than a litlle stupid? I remember a few months after GTA3 came out there was a uk police team assigned to play through the game and give their verdict on it. After completing the game they decided it was nothing but harmless fun. The gta games have always been intended as harmless fun, hell some of the ingame humour has to make that pretty obvious. However as they contain adult themes they are rated as such. This is done so as to cover R's ass in cases like this. If a 14 year old has it bought for him (or her) plays it then goes and kills the old lady next door because of some warped idea gained from the game (and really how many of you have ever had the notion) then it's firstly his parents fault for buying it, and for neglecting to tel the boy you dont kill the neighbours. Secondly It's the boys fault for making the decision to do it in the first place. SHOCK HORROR!! he said it was the little boys fault. True. I did. And it is. These cases always seem to make out that the little kids that do these things are poor innocent darlings who would never have thought of doing such a thing before they played the game. LIKE HELL THEY WOULDN'T. (please dont think i'm being predjudiced here) But all the little bastards that do stuff like this would be quite capable of doing it weather they played the game or not. So to sum up. It's not R's fault, it's not Take2's fault. It's the fault of the person tha did it. No passage of blame. Just some more humbled words from the sensible side of britain. ------------------ any foolproof plan can be circumvented by the sufficiantly prepared fool.

Post 5 | New

Posted September 13th, 2003

The Humungous
Engine Builder

Joined: Jun '03
Posts: 55

So if i were to go and play vice, kill a few peds then feel inspired to go do it in my car then i would be able to file a lawsuit against R* and take2.

Is it just me that sees this as more than a litlle stupid?

I remember a few months after GTA3 came out there was a uk police team assigned to play through the game and give their verdict on it. After completing the game they decided it was nothing but harmless fun.

The gta games have always been intended as harmless fun, hell some of the ingame humour has to make that pretty obvious.
However as they contain adult themes they are rated as such. This is done so as to cover R*'s ass in cases like this.
If a 14 year old has it bought for him (or her) plays it then goes and kills the old lady next door because of some warped idea gained from the game (and really how many of you have ever had the notion) then it's firstly his parents fault for buying it, and for neglecting to tel the boy you dont kill the neighbours. Secondly It's the boys fault for making the decision to do it in the first place.

SHOCK HORROR!! he said it was the little boys fault. True. I did. And it is. These cases always seem to make out that the little kids that do these things are poor innocent darlings who would never have thought of doing such a thing before they played the game. LIKE HELL THEY WOULDN'T. (please dont think i'm being predjudiced here) But all the little bastards that do stuff like this would be quite capable of doing it weather they played the game or not.

So to sum up. It's not R*'s fault, it's not Take2's fault. It's the fault of the person tha did it. No passage of blame.

Just some more humbled words from the sensible side of britain.

------------------
any foolproof plan can be circumvented by the sufficiantly prepared fool.

Post 6 \| New	Posted September 13th, 2003
Gokhan Would you like to know more? Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 836	My sentiments exactly. I read about this incident a few weeks back in the local paper (though they didn't mention any sort of litigation) and, like Azz, I also thought to myself "How did these kids get a hold of a rifle, and why were they playing a game that they were obviously too young too play? It's obvious that these kids had some sort of tendencies towards things like this, and the parents, to ignorant too notice, try to take the easy way out and blame video games. I don't care how many times "experts" say it, violence in games does not make normal people do violent things. I mean, if it were true, we'd all be in jail by now, right? ------------------ GOKHAN

Post 6 | New

Posted September 13th, 2003

Gokhan
Would you like to know more?

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 836

My sentiments exactly.

I read about this incident a few weeks back in the local paper (though they didn't mention any sort of litigation) and, like Azz, I also thought to myself "How did these kids get a hold of a rifle, and why were they playing a game that they were obviously too young too play? It's obvious that these kids had some sort of tendencies towards things like this, and the parents, to ignorant too notice, try to take the easy way out and blame video games. I don't care how many times "experts" say it, violence in games does not make normal people do violent things. I mean, if it were true, we'd all be in jail by now, right?

------------------
GOKHAN

Post 7 \| New	Posted September 14th, 2003. Updated September 14th, 2003 (officers heh.)
2na Beans, eating it! Joined: Feb '03 Posts: -97,249	My cousin Bret is a police officer and he loves Vice city... ------------------ I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 8 \| New	Posted September 14th, 2003
The Humungous Engine Builder Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 55	the age thing isnt really the issue. Like i said before thats mainl there to cover R*'s ass in situatinos like this. But i've been playing GTA since i was 13, and it's never done me any harm, my parents even bought me the games. So again, it's not the games fault, it's the bad bastards looking for a get out of jail free card (the nasty Game made me do it) ------------------ any foolproof plan can be circumvented by the sufficiantly prepared fool.

Post 8 | New

Posted September 14th, 2003

The Humungous
Engine Builder

Joined: Jun '03
Posts: 55

the age thing isnt really the issue.
Like i said before thats mainl there to cover R*'s ass in situatinos like this.
But i've been playing GTA since i was 13, and it's never done me any harm, my parents even bought me the games.
So again, it's not the games fault, it's the bad bastards looking for a get out of jail free card (the nasty Game made me do it)

------------------
any foolproof plan can be circumvented by the sufficiantly prepared fool.

Post 9 \| New	Posted September 14th, 2003
Needles Drinks Fucking Tea! Joined: Jan '99 Posts: 2,239 Type: Moderator	You all know my views on how stupid the Americans are... Needles ------------------ Drink Tea Anonymous wrote: Banning people is not the only job of an admin. All i've seen from you is that: A ) Anyone who does not share your views over things is wrong and therefore must be banned, and B ) You are completely biased towards England. (note the views expressed by Needles are not necessarily shared by the Gouranga! Forums staff and sometimes we've never heard of him guv honest, he just loiters around a bit making the place look untidy. your Honour.)

Post 9 | New

Posted September 14th, 2003

Needles
Drinks Fucking Tea!

Joined: Jan '99
Posts: 2,239
Type: Moderator

You all know my views on how stupid the Americans are...

Needles

------------------
Drink Tea
Anonymous wrote:

Banning people is not the only job of an admin. All i've seen from you is that: A ) Anyone who does not share your views over things is wrong and therefore must be banned, and B ) You are completely biased towards England.

(note the views expressed by Needles are not necessarily shared by the Gouranga! Forums staff and sometimes we've never heard of him guv honest, he just loiters around a bit making the place look untidy. your Honour.)

Post 10 \| New	Posted September 14th, 2003
Gangsta Mick Why dodge bullets?- suck 'em in! Joined: Jul '03 Posts: 78	I shall speak on behave of the Americans... I feel its bad parenting- parents and kids alike are turning into useless blobs of fat, sitting around doing stupid things. Me, on the contrary, have a 99.8 GPA And I play GTA games, kill people, run over 400 people in an effort to boost my accuracy, pick up hookers for "Health" reasons, and blow up cops with rocket launchers. But would I in real life? NO! Thats rediculous. I think America should go back to the 1800's when Americans were actually hard working, thoughtful citizens. To sum up everything, I think people are just looking for someone or something to blame, rather than looking at what they have done themselves. To actually do stupid things like that require thoughts like, "Hey. Today, I'm going to shoot a real gun at real people in a real car and really kill them". The person himself is acting upon his own will, not some zombie saying, "Must kill for game... must kill for game... must kill for game..."

Post 10 | New

Posted September 14th, 2003

Gangsta Mick
Why dodge bullets?- suck 'em in!

Joined: Jul '03
Posts: 78

I shall speak on behave of the Americans...

I feel its bad parenting- parents and kids alike are turning into useless blobs of fat, sitting around doing stupid things.

Me, on the contrary, have a 99.8 GPA

And I play GTA games, kill people, run over 400 people in an effort to boost my accuracy, pick up hookers for "Health" reasons, and blow up cops with rocket launchers. But would I in real life? NO! Thats rediculous.

I think America should go back to the 1800's when Americans were actually hard working, thoughtful citizens.

To sum up everything, I think people are just looking for someone or something to blame, rather than looking at what they have done themselves. To actually do stupid things like that require thoughts like, "Hey. Today, I'm going to shoot a real gun at real people in a real car and really kill them". The person himself is acting upon his own will, not some zombie saying, "Must kill for game... must kill for game... must kill for game..."

Post 11 \| New	Posted September 16th, 2003
PaladinoII Foot in Mouth, Gun in Hand. Joined: Apr '03 Posts: 608	you mean speak on behalf. here's my thoughts. go watch bowling for columbine. seriously. go watch it. now. americans aren't evil. our society is evil. our government is evil, and quite possibly missing a few chromosomes. the truth is, humans will always be violent, not because of games, not because of movies, not because of tv, not because of bad parenting (although thats a better cause than many others,) not because of the media, not because of bad gun restriction, not because of CCW laws, not because of racism, or because of greed, but simply because when it comes down to it humans are violent by nature. ------------------ asdf

Post 11 | New

Posted September 16th, 2003

PaladinoII
Foot in Mouth, Gun in Hand.

Joined: Apr '03
Posts: 608

you mean speak on behalf.

here's my thoughts. go watch bowling for columbine. seriously. go watch it. now.

americans aren't evil. our society is evil. our government is evil, and quite possibly missing a few chromosomes.

the truth is, humans will always be violent, not because of games, not because of movies, not because of tv, not because of bad parenting (although thats a better cause than many others,) not because of the media, not because of bad gun restriction, not because of CCW laws, not because of racism, or because of greed, but simply because when it comes down to it humans are violent by nature.

------------------
asdf

Post 12 \| New	Posted September 16th, 2003
maverickllama does not exist :. Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 744	Yeah, I think there have been a lot of good statements made here. Especially The Humungous and PaladinoII. Humans are greedy and violent by nature, some more than others. ------------------ Azz wrote: Oh.. yeah, guns bad, ice cream good, the end.

Post 13 \| New	Posted September 16th, 2003
PaladinoII Foot in Mouth, Gun in Hand. Joined: Apr '03 Posts: 608	no, we are all equally violent and greedy. the ones who withhold their greed and violent ways are the people who accomplish things in this world. they don't do it because it was inherent, they do it because they are strong willed, and they care more for their fellow man than they do for belongings. [/buddha] ------------------ asdf

Post 14 \| New	Posted September 17th, 2003
2na Beans, eating it! Joined: Feb '03 Posts: -97,249	PaladinoII On 16/09/2003 @ 13:04:18 wrote: you mean speak on behalf. here's my thoughts. go watch bowling for columbine. seriously. go watch it. now. americans aren't evil. our society is evil. our government is evil, and quite possibly missing a few chromosomes. the truth is, humans will always be violent, not because of games, not because of movies, not because of tv, not because of bad parenting (although thats a better cause than many others,) not because of the media, not because of bad gun restriction, not because of CCW laws, not because of racism, or because of greed, but simply because when it comes down to it humans are violent by nature. Yes that movie does rock, Funny how they go to Germany the home of Thrash metal, and that whole Hitler thing, and find that there crime leaves are so minutiae compared to America. ------------------ I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 14 | New

Posted September 17th, 2003

2na
Beans, eating it!

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: -97,249

PaladinoII On 16/09/2003 @ 13:04:18 wrote:

Yes that movie does rock, Funny how they go to Germany the home of Thrash metal, and that whole Hitler thing, and find that there crime leaves are so minutiae compared to America.

------------------
I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 15 \| New	Posted September 17th, 2003
Toumai Wal-Mart Greeter Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 932	Damnit! It just goes to show how lazy we all are. That we need a fucking MOVIE to tell us that society is screwed up. One of these days I'm going to become the PM of Canada, and I'm going to make a difference. This country dosen't need some idiot with a funny accent or monkeylike face. It needs a leader with the understanding of the people. An understanding of real life. Right now, criminals are living better lives than that of those who fought to defend our country in the wars of latter years. The one thing the French got right was their criminal legislation. In the years to come. Watch for me in the papers. Oh and Paladin. You like books? Read this here: http://forums.gouranga.com/iceyboard/?ibaction=topic&topic=409 My day is over. Off to bed. ------------------ link's dead baby, link's dead

Post 15 | New

Posted September 17th, 2003

Toumai
Wal-Mart Greeter

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 932

Damnit!

It just goes to show how lazy we all are. That we need a fucking MOVIE to tell us that society is screwed up.

One of these days I'm going to become the PM of Canada, and I'm going to make a difference. This country dosen't need some idiot with a funny accent or monkeylike face. It needs a leader with the understanding of the people. An understanding of real life.

Right now, criminals are living better lives than that of those who fought to defend our country in the wars of latter years. The one thing the French got right was their criminal legislation.

In the years to come. Watch for me in the papers.

Oh and Paladin. You like books? Read this here:

http://forums.gouranga.com/iceyboard/?ibaction=topic&topic=409

My day is over. Off to bed.

------------------
link's dead baby, link's dead

Post 16 \| New	Posted September 17th, 2003
Fragdieb2 Avatar is missing! Joined: Mar '03 Posts: 1,784	Germany is the home of Trash Metal? That explains all the trash littering my floor, I guess. The problem of americans - as i understood it in Bowling for Columbine - seems to be that many Americans are totally paranoid and afraid of anything that has a 0.0001% chance of getting dangerous. ------------------ -temporary placeholder for a new cool signature-

Post 17 \| New	Posted September 17th, 2003
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,785 Type: Administrator	except for playing with guns, eating copious amounts of food and smoking like chimneys... ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 18 \| New	Posted September 18th, 2003
PaladinoII Foot in Mouth, Gun in Hand. Joined: Apr '03 Posts: 608	i already read fast food nation.. its ok. its no jungle (upton sinclair, revolutionized what people thought about the meat industry way back when) but it does have a few things to say. unfortunately, i couldn't give a piss whats in my food as long as it tastes good. nothing i ate at a fast food restaurant killed me yet. i did like the bit about how mickey d's uses beef tallow in their fries to make them addictive. funny. ------------------ asdf

Post 18 | New

Posted September 18th, 2003

PaladinoII
Foot in Mouth, Gun in Hand.

Joined: Apr '03
Posts: 608

i already read fast food nation.. its ok. its no jungle (upton sinclair, revolutionized what people thought about the meat industry way back when) but it does have a few things to say. unfortunately, i couldn't give a piss whats in my food as long as it tastes good. nothing i ate at a fast food restaurant killed me yet.

i did like the bit about how mickey d's uses beef tallow in their fries to make them addictive. funny.

------------------
asdf

Post 19 \| New	Posted September 18th, 2003
2na Beans, eating it! Joined: Feb '03 Posts: -97,249	There?s this really tasty kebab place in the night clubbing area near where I live, They say the meat it?s a mixture of beef and lamb, that?s why you cant quite put your finger on the taste, it?s probably dog or something. I acutely just plain don?t like MacDonald?s and haven?t had it in years. ------------------ I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 20 \| New	Posted September 27th, 2003. Updated September 27th, 2003
Deleted Member	I have to add to this. The most common scapegoats for violence these days are: 1. Computer Games 2. Rock/Rap music 3. Violence in films/TV Well I like nothing more than playing GTA3 and listening to Slipknot before I go and watch horror films in bed. Yet as strange as it may sound, I don't go kill people the next day. WOW, yes I did just say that. You can't blame R, Take 2, etc for what kids do. I agree whole-heartedly with The Humungous. R doesn't force kids to kill, they made the game for adults. It says so on the box. Those teens made their own decision and thus they should be sentenced for being sick little bastards. Admittedly parents don't always know what their kids do, but AS parents they should make an effort to find out. Where did these kids get a gun from anyway?

Post 20 | New

Posted September 27th, 2003. Updated September 27th, 2003

Deleted Member

I have to add to this.

The most common scapegoats for violence these days are:

1. Computer Games
2. Rock/Rap music
3. Violence in films/TV

Well I like nothing more than playing GTA3 and listening to Slipknot before I go and watch horror films in bed. Yet as strange as it may sound, I don't go kill people the next day. WOW, yes I did just say that. You can't blame R*, Take 2, etc for what kids do.

I agree whole-heartedly with The Humungous. R* doesn't force kids to kill, they made the game for adults. It says so on the box. Those teens made their own decision and thus they should be sentenced for being sick little bastards.

Admittedly parents don't always know what their kids do, but AS parents they should make an effort to find out. Where did these kids get a gun from anyway?

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