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GOURANGA! Forums > Editing > 3D Mods > Question about polygoncount
Post 1 | New
Pennywise
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I've been working on a GTA Vice car, my dad's car actually. It's a Mazda 626 from 1990. Picture here :) :

 http://members.lycos.co.uk/dancingclown/hpbimg/zovertotnutoe.JPG

I've been working on it for quite a few days now, but I was wondering.. What's the maximum amount of polygons you should use when editing cars? I know the averaga GTA Vice car uses around 1100, but when does the gameplay get slow for an average speed pc? I'm kinda worried, because my car already has 1600+ polys and I still have to make the inside...

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Post 2 | New
That Shit Touge
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You should be ok as long as you don't go crazy on the interior and wheels like most people do. Well done for having the creativity to do something different!

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Post 3 | New
Pennywise
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Well, I was gonna do the interior like all the other GTA Vice cars, just plain and simple. You don't see much of it, so it wouldn't be necessary to make it very detailed. Hope it will work out :)

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Cerbera
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As you add more cars, swap cars around and generally modify your install of GTA, the performance will slowly drop off as the data gets spread around your hard drive.  However, despite this you can get away with quite a lot of polygons, although it depends how tightly you are running your game settings.

If normal Vice runs liquid smooth and you never get any lag, even when there are lots of cops and FBI on screen, then you could have 60k polygon cars and only get slowdown in hectic scenes - such as when FBI get after you.
If your game sometimes slows down under these hectic scenes in Vice but is fine for normal gameplay, then 10-20k cars are fine.  It really comes down to the capacity of your graphics card and whether you are running at a resolution which isn't right on the limit of what the card can process.

It's really the COL data used by map objects which slows the game down because that has to be handled by the normal CPU, which isn't ideal for a polygon system.  However, if you create a TXD which is 10mb that can slow the game down and it may even prevent your car from spawning in busy areas too.


Have a look around the "common" sections of my GTA3 and Vice areas of my site to see how many polys similar cars to this have.  That section is all family cars, like this one seems to be. :h

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Post 5 | New
Pennywise
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Cerbera On 11/04/2004 @ 02:50:10 wrote:
... then you could have 60k polygon cars and only get slowdown in hectic scenes ...

...10-20k cars are fine. .
 :h


Don't you mean 1-2k cars and 6k cars? 10-20k is 10000 to 20000 polys or am I wrong? If you DID mean 10000 - 20000, then I can use lots more polys :D

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Post 6 | New
Fragdieb2
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He really meant 10000 - 20000. With your 1.6k polys, you won't have any problems putting another several 1000 into wheels and interior. The maximum amount of polys for a Vice car I've seen somewhere was about 105000. I've expirienced that big texture files slow down the game more than high polycounts. I always try to keep the *.txd's size below 1mb on my cars.

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Post 7 | New
Pennywise
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Then it's gonna work fine :D The only thing I still worry about is good textures for my car.. I have some pictures of it, but they are all rather shiny looking and not straight from the front or straight from the side, so they won't fit on the car... But I'm sure a bit googling will solve that problem :) But if someone knows a good car- texture site I will surely appreciate it :)

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Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard

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Pennywise On 11/04/2004 @ 06:47:22 wrote:
Then it's gonna work fine :D The only thing I still worry about is good textures for my car.. I have some pictures of it, but they are all rather shiny looking and not straight from the front or straight from the side, so they won't fit on the car... But I'm sure a bit googling will solve that problem :) But if someone knows a good car- texture site I will surely appreciate it :)
Theres several different styles of texturing.  If you have a look round the car sections of my site, you'll see people like Sin5k4 base thier textures on photos whilst people like Superfly Driver draw theirs using photoshop and similar programs.

I think the self-made textures give a more unique style to a model because you can go from the stylish shading that Superfly Driver uses to the realism that Majestic achieves.  Phototexturing will always give you false highlights, which is especially bad when they are on moving parts like wheels.

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Pennywise
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Touge On 10/04/2004 @ 15:04:42 wrote:
... as you don't go crazy on the interior and wheels like most people do....


Another question: Where can you actually model the wheels? I haven't seen them in Azz's tutorial, and I also don't see them when I open another car's dff. So they must be in another dff file. Do all the cars have their own couple of wheels, or do they share them?

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Post 10 | New
Azz
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yeah I need to update my tutorials :)

Just model them in the dff (well ok, make them in a separate one since it's easier then import it), then make sure you install dmagic's doodad to get them to work.

Always takes me a bit of trial and error to position the wheels in the dff, I'm sure there must be a technical way. I get the right ones in the right place, then copy them (don't mirror them, the left point the same way for some reason), then spend about an hour adjusting them.

If you model them at normal size in the dff, then set the wheel ratio as 1.0 in the default.ide it's a lot easier.

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Post 11 | New
Pennywise
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And yet another question :D :

I've been working on the front left door the whole day (I know, I'm slow :)). I was thinking of mirroring the door, so I don't have to make another one. But I'm not sure if that's very safe. Because  another time when I mirrored something else, I noticed just a very small line where I could look through the car.. I just want to make sure my car comes out nicely when I'm finished with it, so it would be rather unpleasant if it would look wrong.

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Post 12 | New
Azz
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it should be ok to mirror it. make sure the main axis is reset before you do it though, so it's at the centre of the axis grid.

I know what you mean though, I've had problems with detaching and reattaching objects that somehow manage to move themselves a fraction of a unit so you get gaps.

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Post 13 | New
Dup
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Don't detatch anything till you have finished modeling the whole car. Wheels and interior can be seperate objects but the body needs to be fully united so the normals (reflections) and the textures are perfect when applied. Otheriwise when you calculate the normals for each section they won't match and it looks ghey.

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Pennywise
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Hmm I already detached and united several objects very often because I had to fix shadows some times. I hope it doesn't matter too much :S

But isn't it possible to fix the normals if you detach one object at the borderline where it meets another object? (like the border between the door and the body). I always detach the outside of the body and the inside. I think this fixes the normals, doesn't it? Know what I mean?

EDIT:

Dup On 12/04/2004 @ 18:14:25 wrote:
Don't detatch anything till you have finished modeling the whole car


Did you mean the whole car or only the outside of the car? Because I meant I detached a couple of times, but only AFTER I finished the outside.

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Cerbera
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Azz On 12/04/2004 @ 08:54:25 wrote:
If you model them at normal size in the dff, then set the wheel ratio as 1.0 in the default.ide it's a lot easier.
Doesn't that make them float?  Making them precisely one unit in diameter with the centre of the wheel level with the bottom of the car would be better because the handling.cfg moves the wheel downwards and default.ide sets the size.  This will also ensure that the wheel is solid at its outside edge.

I'm pretty sure that R* units are the same as the units that most 3D modelling programs use...

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Post 16 | New
eddy
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Azz wrote:
If you model them at normal size in the dff, then set the wheel ratio as 1.0 in the default.ide it's a lot easier.


This would make them float or sink into the ground because the wheel would be a different size compared to the col file for the wheels. On Dmagic's website there is a wheel called scaler.dff and just import this to your z3d file and scale your wheels to the same size as the scaled wheel.

I'm not sure about what cerbera said about the 1 unit, could be but I've always used a scale wheel. If you can't find the scale wheel just import one of the wheel models from the game instead.

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Post 17 | New
Azz
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hmm, can't say I've ever noticed mine floating or sinking. Maybe I've just been lucky?

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Post 18 | New
Pennywise
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Well, i've been working on the insides of the car for some time. Slowly, it starts to look like something :)
Here's a new screenie:

 http://members.lycos.co.uk/dancingclown/hpbimg/zovertotnutoe3.JPG

I know, the shadow doesn't look ok at all places. I'll fix that later

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