Too many ideas, not enough time!

Post 1 \| New	Posted July 20th, 2005
Icey the pirate. arrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,455 Type: Administrator	Yesterday I installed Ubuntu Linux on my computer and it's all running very smoothly. One of the great little tools I've been using is apt-get. Which, as far as I understand, maintains a list of installed software on my machine and retrieves the latest version numbers of the same software from the web. It also retrieves lists of software I don't have, in case I want to download them as well. So I tell it what I want to update and it silently downloads and installs. I'm thinking that this is a great idea because I don't have to browse lots of different websites checking to see if I need to update my software and I don't have to go round looking where to download it and so on. Now... this is where we get to the idea part. Wouldn't it be a fantastic idea if a similar application was created for Windows? Here's a brief explanation: When the application is launched for the first time it scans your computer, notes any software and finds the installed version numbers. The user then selects which applications they want automatically updated in future. The application then stays quiet in the system tray and connects to a server somewhere every-so-often. It sends the list of applications to the server and the server sends back the latest version numbers of those applications and the direct URL to download them (which is probably the authors site). If there's a new version, the application downloads it and lets the user know they can install it. The server holds lists of the most recent versions of hundreds of pieces of software and the download locations for them. It doesn't store any of the applications. The user can also look at other software category's using the application. Those would be obtained from the server as well. The user could then select applications they want to download in the future. So essentially, I want to know two things. 1) Does software like this already exist for Windows? 2) If it did/does exist, would you use it? If nothing like this does exist and people would be interested, I'll add it to my list of projects. I'd probably make it in VB or C++ and it would definitely be open-source. ------------------

Posted July 20th, 2005

Icey
the pirate. arrr

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,455
Type: Administrator

Yesterday I installed Ubuntu Linux on my computer and it's all running very smoothly.

One of the great little tools I've been using is apt-get. Which, as far as I understand, maintains a list of installed software on my machine and retrieves the latest version numbers of the same software from the web. It also retrieves lists of software I don't have, in case I want to download them as well.

So I tell it what I want to update and it silently downloads and installs.

I'm thinking that this is a great idea because I don't have to browse lots of different websites checking to see if I need to update my software and I don't have to go round looking where to download it and so on.

Now... this is where we get to the idea part. Wouldn't it be a fantastic idea if a similar application was created for Windows? Here's a brief explanation:

When the application is launched for the first time it scans your computer, notes any software and finds the installed version numbers. The user then selects which applications they want automatically updated in future.

The application then stays quiet in the system tray and connects to a server somewhere every-so-often. It sends the list of applications to the server and the server sends back the latest version numbers of those applications and the direct URL to download them (which is probably the authors site). If there's a new version, the application downloads it and lets the user know they can install it.

The server holds lists of the most recent versions of hundreds of pieces of software and the download locations for them. It doesn't store any of the applications.

The user can also look at other software category's using the application. Those would be obtained from the server as well. The user could then select applications they want to download in the future.

So essentially, I want to know two things.

1) Does software like this already exist for Windows?
2) If it did/does exist, would you use it?

If nothing like this does exist and people would be interested, I'll add it to my list of projects. I'd probably make it in VB or C++ and it would definitely be open-source.

------------------

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7684/bronze6cy.jpg

Post 2 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005. Updated July 21st, 2005
DaDa123 Joined: Aug '03 Posts: 963	Yes even though that is a great idea, however there are two sides two this idea of a "universal software update center." The upside is for us users not having to search the net for each individual software updates by visiting each products website. Updating applications to it latest version is a PITA if you have a ton of software installed. Another reason is some application have really long web addresses and they are really difficult to remeber especially if they have hypens, or other specialize symbols included in their web address. The downside for this is most users would not like someone or something to know what software they use. or how many software they have installed inside their computer. Another way to say this is umm. spyware? Sometime (rarely) updating a software tends to crash or make the system become unstable. If multiple software were updated at once, and that user's system crashes or becomes unstable, then he or she will have a difficult time figuring out which software is actually causing the problem. Isn't app-get a utility a utility that only searches for open-source apps, but not apps where you have to pay for it? BTW: most individual programs comes with its own automatic update utility. Is there a similar utilty for Windows? unfortunately No, because BG is too busy eating kimchee! (Kimchee- a korean dish that taste really good and it really healthy!) It it does exist would you use it? If it does exist, I would probably use it only if it can proof to me that it will not contain any malcious threats, spyware, and it protects my privacy. Don't work to hard on yourself, if you decide to create this program.

Post 2 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005. Updated July 21st, 2005

DaDa123

Joined: Aug '03
Posts: 963

Yes even though that is a great idea, however there are two sides two this
idea of a "universal software update center."

The upside is for us users not having to search the net for each individual software updates by
visiting each products website.
Updating applications to it latest version is a PITA if you have a ton of software installed.
Another reason is some application have really long web addresses and they are really difficult to
remeber especially if they have hypens, or other specialize symbols included in their web address.

The downside for this is most users would not like someone or something to know what software they use.
or how many software they have installed inside their computer.
Another way to say this is umm. spyware?
Sometime (rarely) updating a software tends to crash or make the system become unstable.
If multiple software were updated at once, and that user's system crashes or becomes unstable,
then he or she will have a difficult time figuring out which software is actually causing the problem.

Isn't app-get a utility a utility that only searches for open-source apps, but not apps where you
have to pay for it?

BTW: most individual programs comes with its own automatic update utility.

Is there a similar utilty for Windows?
unfortunately No, because BG is too busy eating kimchee!
(Kimchee- a korean dish that taste really good and it really healthy!)

It it does exist would you use it?
If it does exist, I would probably use it only if it can proof
to me that it will not contain any malcious threats, spyware, and it
protects my privacy.

Don't work to hard on yourself, if you decide to create this program.

Post 3 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
2na Beans, eating it! Joined: Feb '03 Posts: -97,249	The only things that need updating on my machine are my virus protection, which I do manually because I don't like tray icons, so I just open them every week or so, update and close. ------------------ I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 3 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

2na
Beans, eating it!

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: -97,249

The only things that need updating on my machine are my virus protection, which I do manually because I don't like tray icons, so I just open them every week or so, update and close.

------------------
I hope you like me and I fit in with your life.

Post 4 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
Elxxy <3 you Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,337	Ubuntu is by far the best distro I've ever used. Good choice. As for the update thingy, my old old Toshiba Infinia desktop had something like this. It was buggy and annoying, though. This would actually be a cool app, with a few changes. Though DaDa was talking out of his ass (as always), he makes a few good points. Automatically downloading stuff is a no-no. That's what Windows Update does and it really pisses me off. Just tell the user, DING DING, this software needs an update, here's the download link for the latest version, yay. Wouldn't it be hell to manage the server, with all the Windows apps that are available today? Many of them already check for updates alone. However, if you make the interface of this app just like apt-get, I'll use it. All the time.

Post 4 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

Elxxy
<3 you

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,337

Ubuntu is by far the best distro I've ever used. Good choice.

As for the update thingy, my old old Toshiba Infinia desktop had something like this. It was buggy and annoying, though.

This would actually be a cool app, with a few changes. Though DaDa was talking out of his ass (as always), he makes a few good points. Automatically downloading stuff is a no-no. That's what Windows Update does and it really pisses me off. Just tell the user, DING DING, this software needs an update, here's the download link for the latest version, yay.

Wouldn't it be hell to manage the server, with all the Windows apps that are available today? Many of them already check for updates alone.

However, if you make the interface of this app just like apt-get, I'll use it. All the time.

Post 5 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005. Updated July 21st, 2005
Sektor Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 288	The latest version is not always the best version. Privacy doesn't have to be a problem. It could download a list of apps, locally compare it to what's installed and then tell you what has updates available. There's many windows auditing programs but if they can check for updates, they usually only check for windows hot fixes. I found a program called Software Catalog but strangely, to check for updates, you have to right click on each app in the list and choose check for update, there is no way to check all applications at once. Keeping the database of applications/websites up to date would be a lot of work. Personally, if I don't know about an update for an app then I don't use that app enough to want an update. ------------------ Stealing cars is the easy part

Post 5 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005. Updated July 21st, 2005

Sektor

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 288

The latest version is not always the best version.

Privacy doesn't have to be a problem. It could download a list of apps, locally compare it to what's installed and then tell you what has updates available.

There's many windows auditing programs but if they can check for updates, they usually only check for windows hot fixes. I found a program called Software Catalog but strangely, to check for updates, you have to right click on each app in the list and choose check for update, there is no way to check all applications at once.

Keeping the database of applications/websites up to date would be a lot of work. Personally, if I don't know about an update for an app then I don't use that app enough to want an update.

------------------
Stealing cars is the easy part

Post 7 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
Icey the pirate. arrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,455 Type: Administrator	Thank you for the responses. DaDa123 wrote: If it does exist, I would probably use it only if it can proof to me that it will not contain any malcious threats, spyware, and it protects my privacy. DaDa123 wrote: The downside for this is most users would not like someone or something to know what software they use How I would combat this: - The application will be open-source. People can inspect the code and verify that it doesn't do anything dodgy. - The application downloads the latest version numbers and compares against the computer. The users version numbers are never sent out. - The application only requests version numbers of software the user has chosen to update, so it's not possible to work out the exact amount of software the user has because they could select a small number even if they have a large number of applications. - Nothing about users would be stored on the server. I'm not sure what you mean by something. Windows is something and it knows what software you have, but no one has a problem with that. DaDa123 wrote: Isn't app-get a utility a utility that only searches for open-source apps, but not apps where you have to pay for it? It wont be a carbon-copy of apt-get. I just think that application is a fantastic idea, so I'd quite like to bring it to Windows with my own methods of doing things. I'd probably concentrate on freeware and open-source, although items like WinZip would be beneficial. Elxxy wrote: Ubuntu is by far the best distro I've ever used. Good choice. Aye, I'm finding it very capable and user-friendly. I haven't had the chance to use it much, but I've already done loads of things because it's quite intuitive. I 'ordered' a load of CD's (for free) and gave them out to people, so hopefully a few more people will get to use it as well. Elxxy wrote: Just tell the user, DING DING, this software needs an update, here's the download link for the latest version, yay. I'd write options in so you could be notified/it would silently download/it would pass the URL to a download manager and so on. That way the user controls the application, rather than the other way round. Elxxy wrote: Wouldn't it be hell to manage the server, with all the Windows apps that are available today? I'd probably host it on SourceForge, so bandwidth wouldn't be a problem. It only needs to send back version numbers which would be quite small... and it could send back loads at a time. I think you're pointing towards updating the list though. I think some of that could be automated and I could use scripts to grab lists from sites like freshmeat. These are the kind of things I would look into before writing the application, so I can make sure it's possible. Sektor wrote: The latest version is not always the best version. Aye, that's true. One thing that application could do is show you the change log and then you could decide if you wanted to update. ------------------

Post 7 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

Icey
the pirate. arrr

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,455
Type: Administrator

Thank you for the responses.

DaDa123 wrote:

If it does exist, I would probably use it only if it can proof
to me that it will not contain any malcious threats, spyware, and it
protects my privacy.

DaDa123 wrote:

The downside for this is most users would not like someone or something to know what software they use

How I would combat this:

- The application will be open-source. People can inspect the code and verify that it doesn't do anything dodgy.
- The application downloads the latest version numbers and compares against the computer. The users version numbers are never sent out.
- The application only requests version numbers of software the user has chosen to update, so it's not possible to work out the exact amount of software the user has because they could select a small number even if they have a large number of applications.
- Nothing about users would be stored on the server.

I'm not sure what you mean by something. Windows is something and it knows what software you have, but no one has a problem with that.

DaDa123 wrote:

Isn't app-get a utility a utility that only searches for open-source apps, but not apps where you
have to pay for it?

It wont be a carbon-copy of apt-get. I just think that application is a fantastic idea, so I'd quite like to bring it to Windows with my own methods of doing things. I'd probably concentrate on freeware and open-source, although items like WinZip would be beneficial.

Elxxy wrote:

Ubuntu is by far the best distro I've ever used. Good choice.

Aye, I'm finding it very capable and user-friendly. I haven't had the chance to use it much, but I've already done loads of things because it's quite intuitive.

I 'ordered' a load of CD's (for free) and gave them out to people, so hopefully a few more people will get to use it as well.

Elxxy wrote:

Just tell the user, DING DING, this software needs an update, here's the download link for the latest version, yay.

I'd write options in so you could be notified/it would silently download/it would pass the URL to a download manager and so on. That way the user controls the application, rather than the other way round.

Elxxy wrote:

Wouldn't it be hell to manage the server, with all the Windows apps that are available today?

I'd probably host it on SourceForge, so bandwidth wouldn't be a problem. It only needs to send back version numbers which would be quite small... and it could send back loads at a time.

I think you're pointing towards updating the list though. I think some of that could be automated and I could use scripts to grab lists from sites like freshmeat. These are the kind of things I would look into before writing the application, so I can make sure it's possible.

Sektor wrote:

The latest version is not always the best version.

Aye, that's true. One thing that application could do is show you the change log and then you could decide if you wanted to update.

------------------

Post 8 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
That Shit Touge ^____________^;; Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 3,838	A Windows Media update is avail- no! A new version of MSN Mes- no! You are using an old vers- no! This software has now been- no! Update available. Would you li- no! If it aint broke, don't fix it, and certainly don't annoy me with popup messages begging me to download the new version every time I open something. So no, I would say it is a bad idea. ------------------ STORY OF MY LIFE: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Post 8 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

That Shit Touge
^____________^;;

Joined: Jun '03
Posts: 3,838

A Windows Media update is avail- no!
A new version of MSN Mes- no!
You are using an old vers- no!
This software has now been- no!
Update available. Would you li- no!

If it aint broke, don't fix it, and certainly don't annoy me with popup messages begging me to download the new version every time I open something.

So no, I would say it is a bad idea.

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http://allspark.net/cypherswipe/anime-planet-sig.jpg

STORY OF MY LIFE: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Post 9 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
DaDa123 Joined: Aug '03 Posts: 963	It seem to me (I could be wrong though) Users whom maintain their PC in tip-top shape does not really require a universal update utility. Users whom does not maintain their PC in tip-top needs a universal update utility so that they do not need to worry about what software needs to be updated.

Post 9 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

DaDa123

Joined: Aug '03
Posts: 963

It seem to me (I could be wrong though)

Users whom maintain their PC in tip-top shape does not really require a universal update utility.

Users whom does not maintain their PC in tip-top needs a universal update utility
so that they do not need to worry about what software needs to be updated.

Post 10 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
Fragdieb2 Avatar is missing! Joined: Mar '03 Posts: 1,784	Touge wrote: A Windows Media update is avail- no! A new version of MSN Mes- no! You are using an old vers- no! This software has now been- no! Update available. Would you li- no! If it aint broke, don't fix it, and certainly don't annoy me with popup messages begging me to download the new version every time I open something. So no, I would say it is a bad idea. So true...and even worse, the Windows Update Tool akways wants to restart the computer after installing an update, and if you click on "restart later", it starts asking again after 5 minutes, this is so fucking annoying. Don't these guys at MS know that "later" means at least 8hrs on my computer? The general question is when you should install an update: when they're out or when you actually are stuck with a problem that only this update can solve? ------------------ -temporary placeholder for a new cool signature-

Post 10 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

Fragdieb2
Avatar is missing!

Joined: Mar '03
Posts: 1,784

Touge wrote:

So true...and even worse, the Windows Update Tool akways wants to restart the computer after installing an update, and if you click on "restart later", it starts asking again after 5 minutes, this is so fucking annoying. Don't these guys at MS know that "later" means at least 8hrs on my computer?

The general question is when you should install an update: when they're out or when you actually are stuck with a problem that only this update can solve?

------------------
-temporary placeholder for a new cool signature-

Post 12 \| New	Posted July 21st, 2005
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,785 Type: Administrator	I guess you'd do it on a applications submissions basis. ie you set up a script somewhere with a site front end, the users download the client to check as you described, but any developer can go and add their software and location of version info to your script. Obviously if you wanted to go away from just open source stuff you'd need someone manually adding in the big software brands, but on a small but useful sized projects could work nicely.. ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 12 | New

Posted July 21st, 2005

Azz
the barbarian. grrr

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,785
Type: Administrator

I guess you'd do it on a applications submissions basis. ie you set up a script somewhere with a site front end, the users download the client to check as you described, but any developer can go and add their software and location of version info to your script. Obviously if you wanted to go away from just open source stuff you'd need someone manually adding in the big software brands, but on a small but useful sized projects could work nicely..

------------------
azz.gouranga.com
est. 1998
(I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 13 \| New	Posted July 22nd, 2005
DaDa123 Joined: Aug '03 Posts: 963	Well if Icey is going to write this program they it best to start helping him with some software names! Here is a link that should have quite a few. It listed alphabetically and where it came from. Software names

Post 13 | New

Posted July 22nd, 2005

DaDa123

Joined: Aug '03
Posts: 963

Well if Icey is going to write this program they it best to start helping him with some
software names!

Here is a link that should have quite a few.
It listed alphabetically and where it came from.

Software names

Post 14 \| New	Posted July 22nd, 2005
Elxxy <3 you Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,337	I think this would actually be cooler for PHP and/or other server-side scripts. Something like Fantastico, except with more software and 100% open-source. It would automatically install and update a variety of scripts. Maybe have like a plugin-based system where users could create plugin files directing the installation of their programs. Now THAT is something I would use.

Post 14 | New

Posted July 22nd, 2005

Elxxy
<3 you

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,337

I think this would actually be cooler for PHP and/or other server-side scripts. Something like Fantastico, except with more software and 100% open-source. It would automatically install and update a variety of scripts. Maybe have like a plugin-based system where users could create plugin files directing the installation of their programs.

Now THAT is something I would use.

Post 15 \| New	Posted July 24th, 2005
Will Shovel Headed Kill Machine Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 3,473	I update my anti virus. And I ONLY update MSN when it wont let me sign on. MSN update break the bastard thing. As for steam... grr... rage... ------------------ -My site got deleted-

Post 15 | New

Posted July 24th, 2005

Will
Shovel Headed Kill Machine

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 3,473

I update my anti virus. And I ONLY update MSN when it wont let me sign on. MSN update break the bastard thing.

As for steam... grr... rage...

------------------
-My site got deleted-

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