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GOURANGA! Forums > General > Off Topic > I might go and study.

Post 1 \| New	Posted February 2nd, 2010
JJHW Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,013	I'm 21, not old yet, but up until now I've always had a bit of disdain for students and academic stuff in general (had a hard time at school, like REALLY). But I've actually decided this year to apply to university after not finishing my A-Levels and spending the past few years touring with bands. I've chosen to apply for a joint honours degree 'Computer Games & Games Studies'. It's half a poncy media degree about the cultural significance of games and whatnot and half actually programming and design. The idea is I try and go into the field of Games Design that seems pretty exciting. Anyway, I've started a little blog, mostly for my own cataloging, but you may as well look - jeromejwatson.blogspot.com and generally means I'm learning how to program stuff and having started trying to make games. Anyone with anything to contribute past 'C# sucks, blah, blah, blah boring nerd stuff everyone has their own preferences so shut up', please do. My dad is a programmer so he's started coming round my house once a week, he's fluent in C++ and C# and pretty much all languages. It's a bit weird suddenly moving from music to this, but I know you lot are the sort that know about this stuff, even if just at a hobbyist level, so yeah, I'm bringing it up. THANKS. ------------------ Long live the first 20 members! - I'm number 15 duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhuhuuuhuhuhuhuhhhuuh

Post 1 | New

Posted February 2nd, 2010

JJHW

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,013

I'm 21, not old yet, but up until now I've always had a bit of disdain for students and academic stuff in general (had a hard time at school, like REALLY). But I've actually decided this year to apply to university after not finishing my A-Levels and spending the past few years touring with bands. I've chosen to apply for a joint honours degree 'Computer Games & Games Studies'. It's half a poncy media degree about the cultural significance of games and whatnot and half actually programming and design. The idea is I try and go into the field of Games Design that seems pretty exciting.

Anyway, I've started a little blog, mostly for my own cataloging, but you may as well look - jeromejwatson.blogspot.com and generally means I'm learning how to program stuff and having started trying to make games.

Anyone with anything to contribute past 'C# sucks, blah, blah, blah boring nerd stuff everyone has their own preferences so shut up', please do. My dad is a programmer so he's started coming round my house once a week, he's fluent in C++ and C# and pretty much all languages.

It's a bit weird suddenly moving from music to this, but I know you lot are the sort that know about this stuff, even if just at a hobbyist level, so yeah, I'm bringing it up.

THANKS.

------------------

Long live the first 20 members! - I'm number 15 *duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhuhuuuhuhuhuhuhhhuuh*

Post 2 \| New	Posted February 3rd, 2010
That Shit Touge ^____________^;; Joined: Jun '03 Posts: 3,793	10 PRINT "GET A JOB" 20 GOTO 10 RUN ------------------ STORY OF MY LIFE: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Post 3 \| New	Posted February 3rd, 2010
Dan Wei Joined: Jan '05 Posts: 214	I'm pretty much doing the opposite of this, I was at college a few times for computer related courses (A levels etc) but i could never really throw myself into as i found it well boring as sin. So after a few years of working a full time menial job, I decided that i should actually go for what i've always wanted to do at heart but have pussied out. I won't be signing up this year as i really want to get a fuller rounded idea of theory and hone my playing technique a lot. But April next year, it's on. As for you, well I've really nothing i could help with. I have heard that these games development courses are fairly flimsy, so you might be better doing a straight computer science course or even programming. But i guess this way you'll get a nice view of the aspects of game development and i believe an intro into the business side as well.

Post 3 | New

Posted February 3rd, 2010

Dan Wei

Joined: Jan '05
Posts: 214

I'm pretty much doing the opposite of this, I was at college a few times for computer related courses (A levels etc) but i could never really throw myself into as i found it well boring as sin.
So after a few years of working a full time menial job, I decided that i should actually go for what i've always wanted to do at heart but have pussied out.

I won't be signing up this year as i really want to get a fuller rounded idea of theory and hone my playing technique a lot. But April next year, it's on.

As for you, well I've really nothing i could help with. I have heard that these games development courses are fairly flimsy, so you might be better doing a straight computer science course or even programming. But i guess this way you'll get a nice view of the aspects of game development and i believe an intro into the business side as well.

Post 4 \| New	Posted February 8th, 2010
Lobster Martin hi Joined: Feb '03	I'd also recommend doing a straight computer science course as it'll carry a hell of a lot more weight. These "game degrees" are generally not respected. Games are really hard to get into... who wouldn't want to do game design for a living? If you find a way to get into games, let me know because I've struggled, with two degrees graduating top few % of my yeargroup... Anyone who tells you C# sucks has never used it, because it's one of the nicest to use and powerful languages/frameworks around. C# is in high demand in lots of programming jobs and is taken very seriously.

Post 4 | New

Posted February 8th, 2010

Lobster Martin
hi

Joined: Feb '03

I'd also recommend doing a straight computer science course as it'll carry a hell of a lot more weight. These "game degrees" are generally not respected. Games are really hard to get into... who wouldn't want to do game design for a living? If you find a way to get into games, let me know because I've struggled, with two degrees graduating top few % of my yeargroup...

Anyone who tells you C# sucks has never used it, because it's one of the nicest to use and powerful languages/frameworks around. C# is in high demand in lots of programming jobs and is taken very seriously.

Post 5 \| New	Posted February 8th, 2010
JJHW Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,013	Yeah, I've been reading about the industry's level of respect for this type of degree, but I think that a straight Computer Science degree is something I porbably won't do amazingly at. I think it would still be better to have a good grade of something not quite perfect than a bad grade of anything else. Plus seeing as half of it is a media studies type affair then I keep options open for journalism, TV, etc... Weirdly now a lot of media jobs accept computer science or games degrees and a lot of computer jobs accept media degrees, it's a weird time to try and study it I guess. ------------------ Long live the first 20 members! - I'm number 15 duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhuhuuuhuhuhuhuhhhuuh

Post 5 | New

Posted February 8th, 2010

JJHW

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,013

Yeah, I've been reading about the industry's level of respect for this type of degree, but I think that a straight Computer Science degree is something I porbably won't do amazingly at. I think it would still be better to have a good grade of something not quite perfect than a bad grade of anything else. Plus seeing as half of it is a media studies type affair then I keep options open for journalism, TV, etc... Weirdly now a lot of media jobs accept computer science or games degrees and a lot of computer jobs accept media degrees, it's a weird time to try and study it I guess.

------------------

Long live the first 20 members! - I'm number 15 *duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhuhuuuhuhuhuhuhhhuuh*

Post 6 \| New	Posted February 8th, 2010
Fragdieb2 just öne löuder Joined: Mar '03 Posts: 1,672	I guess the most important thing for all those computer and media jobs is that you appear to know what you're talking about in a job interview, the degree is not that important. I think those computer game degrees aren't that bad, at least you get specific information about how to work on games there, a full computer science degree has a lot of pretty boring theory stuff and maths in it as well. I also believe that the acceptance for those computer game degrees will rise in future, when more people that have them had the chance of proving that they aren't as bad as people believe. For my opinion on C#, I used it a lot on one course at uni (a game development course as part of my CS degree) and I got the same impression as our Lobster, it's really a nice to use and pretty powerful language. I guess those who say it sucks are either die-hard C++ coders or just pissed that Microsoft did something the right way for once. ------------------ -temporary placeholder for a new cool signature-

Post 6 | New

Posted February 8th, 2010

Fragdieb2
just öne löuder

Joined: Mar '03
Posts: 1,672

I guess the most important thing for all those computer and media jobs is that you appear to know what you're talking about in a job interview, the degree is not that important. I think those computer game degrees aren't that bad, at least you get specific information about how to work on games there, a full computer science degree has a lot of pretty boring theory stuff and maths in it as well. I also believe that the acceptance for those computer game degrees will rise in future, when more people that have them had the chance of proving that they aren't as bad as people believe.

For my opinion on C#, I used it a lot on one course at uni (a game development course as part of my CS degree) and I got the same impression as our Lobster, it's really a nice to use and pretty powerful language. I guess those who say it sucks are either die-hard C++ coders or just pissed that Microsoft did something the right way for once.

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-temporary placeholder for a new cool signature-

Post 7 \| New	Posted February 10th, 2010
Lobster Martin hi Joined: Feb '03	I agree in part with some of that Frag - you definitely need to know what you're talking about in the interview, and degrees aren't the be-all and end-all of qualification. Infact degrees hold surprisingly little weight compared to industry experience. But if you don't have experience - as is the case with everyone at the beginning - then a degree IS important - it gets you the job interview in the first place. Without experience you need a degree, generally speaking.

Post 7 | New

Posted February 10th, 2010

Lobster Martin
hi

Joined: Feb '03

I agree in part with some of that Frag - you definitely need to know what you're talking about in the interview, and degrees aren't the be-all and end-all of qualification. Infact degrees hold surprisingly little weight compared to industry experience.

But if you don't have experience - as is the case with everyone at the beginning - then a degree IS important - it gets you the job interview in the first place. Without experience you need a degree, generally speaking.

Post 8 \| New	Posted February 10th, 2010
Azz the barbarian. grrr Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,745 Type: Administrator	As someone who employs developers (albeit in a slightly tangential sector) I couldn't really give a monkeys about degrees. If you have two guys coming to you at 21, one with a degree, neither with experience then sure, the nouse to go and study for three years and succeed is helpful. However I wouldn't employ either in that case, because if you're not developing games in your spare time and having something to show me you're not getting through my door. Commercial experience is king, but personal experience is a great way to show off your skills. If you do a degree you have to make it work for you. Showing up to lectures and passing exams is just making school three years long. Sure enjoy the social life, but make intelligent courses about what modules you do, design your coursework with a job in mind. Don't program something just cos it's fun, program something that's fun AND shows off a vital skill. Look at me, I can accurately represent physics is better than look at me, I made a car go brum. That said the conscious decision you've made to change your life's direction, and the intent you show by picking a degree will get you through the door into a lot of interviews. Just be certain you have a bloody good answer when they ask why you didn't go to uni straight after school. It's amazing after you've sat on the other side of interview panels how easy they actually are to get right. If you can conquer the nerves then it's a doddle. BUt maybe we have that discussion in three years ;) Good luck btw. ------------------ azz.gouranga.com est. 1998 (I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 8 | New

Posted February 10th, 2010

Azz
the barbarian. grrr

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,745
Type: Administrator

As someone who employs developers (albeit in a slightly tangential sector) I couldn't really give a monkeys about degrees.

If you have two guys coming to you at 21, one with a degree, neither with experience then sure, the nouse to go and study for three years and succeed is helpful.

However I wouldn't employ either in that case, because if you're not developing games in your spare time and having something to show me you're not getting through my door.

Commercial experience is king, but personal experience is a great way to show off your skills. If you do a degree you have to make it work for you. Showing up to lectures and passing exams is just making school three years long. Sure enjoy the social life, but make intelligent courses about what modules you do, design your coursework with a job in mind. Don't program something just cos it's fun, program something that's fun AND shows off a vital skill. Look at me, I can accurately represent physics is better than look at me, I made a car go brum.

That said the conscious decision you've made to change your life's direction, and the intent you show by picking a degree will get you through the door into a lot of interviews. Just be certain you have a bloody good answer when they ask why you didn't go to uni straight after school. It's amazing after you've sat on the other side of interview panels how easy they actually are to get right. If you can conquer the nerves then it's a doddle. BUt maybe we have that discussion in three years ;)

Good luck btw.

------------------
azz.gouranga.com
est. 1998
(I am oldskoolier than joo)

Post 9 \| New	Posted February 10th, 2010
Lobster Martin hi Joined: Feb '03	I think it's worth adding that, the impact a degree has depends highly on the organisation you're applying for. In my experience, a good deal of small companies are much more interested in experience and anything that shows you are enthusiastic, than qualifications. I guess this is the kind of employer we have in Azz. Big companies are, from what I've seen, very very interested in things like degrees and qualifications. Without them I believe you will struggle to get through all the stages of application, the filters. Having a good grade in a good degree at a good institution will really help you get your foot in the door to grad schemes at large organisations. I'm really talking about development here, rather than game design. I don't know too much about game design, other than I think it's highly unlikely that anyone without experience could get a job doing game design - I think you have to work to that from other positions. Unless we're talking small indie games (which probably don't have positions like "game designer" other than the CEO, I believe game developers are all very large organisations, where a degree IS important. Competition is fierce.

Post 9 | New

Posted February 10th, 2010

Lobster Martin
hi

Joined: Feb '03

I think it's worth adding that, the impact a degree has depends highly on the organisation you're applying for.

In my experience, a good deal of small companies are much more interested in experience and anything that shows you are enthusiastic, than qualifications. I guess this is the kind of employer we have in Azz.

Big companies are, from what I've seen, very very interested in things like degrees and qualifications. Without them I believe you will struggle to get through all the stages of application, the filters. Having a good grade in a good degree at a good institution will really help you get your foot in the door to grad schemes at large organisations.

I'm really talking about development here, rather than game design. I don't know too much about game design, other than I think it's highly unlikely that anyone without experience could get a job doing game design - I think you have to work to that from other positions.

Unless we're talking small indie games (which probably don't have positions like "game designer" other than the CEO, I believe game developers are all very large organisations, where a degree IS important. Competition is fierce.

Post 10 \| New	Posted February 12th, 2010
JJHW Joined: Feb '03 Posts: 1,013	Yeah, well as far I can tell from what I've read Games Design basically involves deciding what the game is (story etc...), how it's played, who it's aimed at, all that stuff written into 'design documents' and the rest of your time is spent being a general employee, helping out a bit with programming, a bit with art, a bit with modelling. I think you just need a good grasp on each aspect of making a game, but not being an expert in any of them. I can already use Photoshop pretty well and I have a good grasp on 3DSMAX, programming is the only thing I know very, very little about... I'll probably end up just going back into music after the 3 years anyway, so I picked something that looked interesting. ------------------ Long live the first 20 members! - I'm number 15 duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhuhuuuhuhuhuhuhhhuuh

Post 10 | New

Posted February 12th, 2010

JJHW

Joined: Feb '03
Posts: 1,013

Yeah, well as far I can tell from what I've read Games Design basically involves deciding what the game is (story etc...), how it's played, who it's aimed at, all that stuff written into 'design documents' and the rest of your time is spent being a general employee, helping out a bit with programming, a bit with art, a bit with modelling. I think you just need a good grasp on each aspect of making a game, but not being an expert in any of them. I can already use Photoshop pretty well and I have a good grasp on 3DSMAX, programming is the only thing I know very, very little about...

I'll probably end up just going back into music after the 3 years anyway, so I picked something that looked interesting.

------------------

Long live the first 20 members! - I'm number 15 *duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhuhuuuhuhuhuhuhhhuuh*

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