#26 2006-08-30 18:52:43

Delfi
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Re: Top Down City dev log

ignore the dates, the topic still counts.


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#27 2006-08-30 20:32:33

Azz
the barbarian. grrr
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 1,830
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Re: Top Down City dev log

Heya, just tidying up. Removed the irrelevant posts and changed the title to something more fitting.

TDC is looking sweet mate, keep up the good work.


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#28 2006-09-01 15:51:18

Delfi
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Re: Top Down City dev log

Heh, this isn't really a dev log, i kinda forgot to post some updates here, i can just promise that a new demo with proper car handling is going to come out soon wink


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#29 2006-09-14 08:18:11

Delfi
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Re: Top Down City dev log

tdcdeltas.jpg

tdccarcollision.jpg

some screenshoots of deltas working properly and being applied to cars in the game on collisions smile


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#30 2006-09-24 15:15:17

Lobster Martin
hi
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 2,277

Re: Top Down City dev log

Looking good Delfi.

When do we get an alpha release? big_smile

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#31 2006-09-27 11:27:21

Delfi
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Re: Top Down City dev log

soon, this year. wink


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#32 2006-11-19 22:42:57

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
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Re: Top Down City dev log

OK, now what was the weirdest thing in gta.. ever? the scaling, so basicly, let's not do this wrong with TDC, shall we?

scaling.jpg

gta1 was a cartoon, gta2 did this kinda-right, so how should tdc deal with this? the floor and car/actor seem ok scaled, the problem would go with wall textures, as you can see here, i've got a HUGE house door, the garage door seems ok, the window looks like it is from a skyscraper or something.. basicly it looks.. admit it.. WEIRD!

so give me suggestions how to do this right, what should be changed?


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#33 2006-11-19 23:10:57

Will
Shovel Headed Kill Machine
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 3,473

Re: Top Down City dev log

Hmm, you are right... still ooks alright though... and the cars/people/road scale is much better!

Could do with a better grass texture though, maybe a bit more grass-like! tongue


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#34 2006-11-20 00:27:05

Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 1,802
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Re: Top Down City dev log

The kerb stones look pretty huge, imho. They are like the width of the player's body...should probably be more like the width of the player's foot.

If a cube is still the length of a car, that means a 1 cube high wall is 4-5 metres tall. That means a normal, 2 level house would only be 1 cube high (plus the roof). Some of the GTA1 textures have two levels per cube; I think the Chinatown buildings in sanb were like like this. That seemed to work quite well.

Maybe for offices you'd have 1.5 levels per cube. You'd always use at least 2 cubes for these. The top half of a 3 cube office could use a decorative pattern beneath the roof, like the government buildings in GTA1 often had. Or, always use an even number of cubes.

Should probably have 2 windows per cube width for houses. Again, maybe have 1.5 windows per cube width for larger buildings and I guess shop windows might be a whole cube wide.

In GTA1, the houses are bloody huge and the offices are relatively small. Normal sizes houses would be about 1 cube wide for a terrace, maybe 2 cubes wide for semi-detached or small detached house. Quite rich detached houses maybe 3 cubes wide, etc. Compare the size of cars to the sizes of different buildings in GTASA perhaps?

Oh, each road lane should stay about 1 cube wide. For main roads, maybe make it 3 lanes wide with the center line in the middle of the middle cubes. This means moving the word-down areas of the textures towards middle a little bit. Not sure if your engine can make cars run offset from center of cubes but these wider roads could be a nice effect.

I think the player is perhaps slightly too big for the car. In GTA2, people were MASSIVE compared to cars. I guess everyone will be really muscular in 3 weeks time. :tongue:

Last edited by 16 (2006-11-20 02:06:33)


[table][tr][td][URL=http://projectcerbera.com/tools/cfgstudio2/]My Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor[/URL]
[URL=http://projectcerbera.com/gta/tutorials/]My GTA Tutorials[/URL][/td][th][URL=http://projectcerbera.com/][IMG]http://projectcerbera.com/button.png[/IMG][/URL][/th][/tr][/table]

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#35 2006-11-20 11:49:22

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
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Re: Top Down City dev log

Cerbera wrote:

The kerb stones look pretty huge, imho. They are like the width of the player's body...should probably be more like the width of the player's foot.

If a cube is still the length of a car, that means a 1 cube high wall is 4-5 metres tall. That means a normal, 2 level house would only be 1 cube high (plus the roof). Some of the GTA1 textures have two levels per cube; I think the Chinatown buildings in sanb were like like this. That seemed to work quite well.

Maybe for offices you'd have 1.5 levels per cube. You'd always use at least 2 cubes for these. The top half of a 3 cube office could use a decorative pattern beneath the roof, like the government buildings in GTA1 often had. Or, always use an even number of cubes.

Should probably have 2 windows per cube width for houses. Again, maybe have 1.5 windows per cube width for larger buildings and I guess shop windows might be a whole cube wide.

In GTA1, the houses are bloody huge and the offices are relatively small. Normal sizes houses would be about 1 cube wide for a terrace, maybe 2 cubes wide for semi-detached or small detached house. Quite rich detached houses maybe 3 cubes wide, etc. Compare the size of cars to the sizes of different buildings in GTASA perhaps?

i think i'll use it this way: change textures to be wider in width and smaller in height, i'll make a block instead 1*1*1 1*1*0.5, with this, i will make the maps 300*300*10 blocks big (projected uncompressed space = 12 bytes per each cube, and that gives 1.080.000 bytes per Z-slice of the map, 10 slices = 10.800.000, that is 10 megabytes for you). comparing this to gta2 maps (6mb) is quite reasonable, and because every file in tdc engine can use zip-like compression (zlib), so the files will stay very small when stored on disk (current small test map is 6.5 MB uncompressed, but is actually just 25Kb compressed).

Making cubes lower, and adding map bigger (more cubes, not scale) in height and width and depth will have to do, with this i can still build large buildings, and have bigger more immersive city.

See example, the textures are a little odd stretched vertically, but it works rather well imo.
tdcnewscale.jpg


Cerbera wrote:

Oh, each road lane should stay about 1 cube wide. For main roads, maybe make it 3 lanes wide with the center line in the middle of the middle cubes. This means moving the word-down areas of the textures towards middle a little bit. Not sure if your engine can make cars run offset from center of cubes but these wider roads could be a nice effect.

there is no limit on that, the car paths are completely vectorized, so you can make roundabouts if you have the guts wink there are no cars driving on paths yet tho..


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#36 2006-11-24 13:53:07

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
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Re: Top Down City dev log

configtdc.jpg

And that, my friends is how we are going to set game video options.


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#37 2006-12-05 15:06:58

Lobster Martin
hi
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 2,277

Re: Top Down City dev log

Give us something to play with damn you.

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#38 2006-12-08 18:18:31

Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 1,802
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

The new cube scaling looks good. The kerb textures are way too big though, imho.

Can you stop cars from casting shadows up onto the sides of walls? I expect players will often be crashing things into walls, so getting this effect right would be noticable.


[table][tr][td][URL=http://projectcerbera.com/tools/cfgstudio2/]My Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor[/URL]
[URL=http://projectcerbera.com/gta/tutorials/]My GTA Tutorials[/URL][/td][th][URL=http://projectcerbera.com/][IMG]http://projectcerbera.com/button.png[/IMG][/URL][/th][/tr][/table]

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#39 2006-12-13 09:08:57

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
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Re: Top Down City dev log

Cerbera wrote:

The new cube scaling looks good. The kerb textures are way too big though, imho.

if i have to justify this, i'll call the map "The Big Kerb City" or something hmm you cant make kerbs smaller as it would look ugly (even if more realistic).

Cerbera wrote:

Can you stop cars from casting shadows up onto the sides of walls? I expect players will often be crashing things into walls, so getting this effect right would be noticable.

I thought in real world it is realistic that cars cast shadows on walls.. or was i wrong? hmm

I am planning a new shadowing system (for buildings only), no changes for cars / peds. it should make almost perfect shadows like in doom3. Same effect and basic idea, but much cheaper, we'll see how it goes..


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#40 2007-04-04 16:00:45

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

OH NOES! EXPLOSIONS! BLAST WAVES! EXPLOSION JUMPING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFtKPNuxW6s

Lol, just check out the TDC youtube explosion testing video:

Icey, add a youtube embedded video tag to forums tongue

On a misc note, i've made a GGE profile if anyone is interested: http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/JernejL


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#41 2007-04-04 16:17:37

Cerbera
Ben 'Cerbera' Millard
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 1,802
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

Strange...I'd have thought a Slovene programmer would be too uptight to participate in a "sexperiment"!


[table][tr][td][URL=http://projectcerbera.com/tools/cfgstudio2/]My Grand Theft Auto Handling Editor[/URL]
[URL=http://projectcerbera.com/gta/tutorials/]My GTA Tutorials[/URL][/td][th][URL=http://projectcerbera.com/][IMG]http://projectcerbera.com/button.png[/IMG][/URL][/th][/tr][/table]

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#42 2007-04-04 16:44:38

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

Cerbera wrote:

Strange...I'd have thought a Slovene programmer would be too uptight to participate in a "sexperiment"!

The website name is "the great games experiment" you tit!


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#43 2007-04-05 20:34:29

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

no real replies? meh you guys are some tough audience tongue


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#44 2007-04-06 15:01:41

Will
Shovel Headed Kill Machine
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 3,473

Re: Top Down City dev log

That looks fun - I take it there will be a god mode cheat so we can all rocket jump? smile

And erm, why did the tank die in one hit? That kindof invalidates its point.


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#45 2007-04-06 17:42:36

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

Will wrote:

That looks fun - I take it there will be a god mode cheat so we can all rocket jump? smile

And erm, why did the tank die in one hit? That kindof invalidates its point.

Because it's health wasn't set so he could survive a rocket hmm by default, cars have 1000 points health, and rocket takes about that much of them away. plus, it didn't have any anti-rocket armor.


http://www.mathpudding.com

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#46 2007-04-06 20:17:15

Icey
Member

Re: Top Down City dev log

Delfi wrote:

OH NOES! EXPLOSIONS! BLAST WAVES! EXPLOSION JUMPING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFtKPNuxW6s

That's really cool. Are these beta's downloadable somewhere?

Delfi wrote:

Icey, add a youtube embedded video tag to forums tongue

Done!

#47 2007-04-06 22:14:45

Delfi
Programmer
Registered: 2003-02-24
Posts: 853
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

Hehe, that youtube embedding is really neat big_smile these demos aren't going out yet for at least a month, basically i'm not releasing any more demo which uses the old car physics until i get the new car physics working, there are really a lot of other cool things i'm doing with tdc lately, so just wait for it (and try to make some hi-res cars or something tongue )

Edit: i wonder if would anyone have anything against me implementing strafing in TDC.. you know, kinda in a FPS way (mouse aim + strafe etc.. ) basicly it sucks aiming in a gta1 classic way, and i believe this would add whole a lot to netplay.


http://www.mathpudding.com

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#48 2007-04-07 13:55:21

Sektor
Member
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 288
Website

Re: Top Down City dev log

Nice shock wave and explosions.  I don't want to have to use a mouse to be competitive.  Keyboard FTW!

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#49 2007-04-15 14:08:40

Lobster Martin
hi
Registered: 2003-02-18
Posts: 2,277

Re: Top Down City dev log

Defli that's awesome, I would have commented but didn't see and have been busy.

I love your little TDC.

Strafing..possibility, although I still think aiming would be horrible.

I'm not sure if this what you meant by using the mouse...

I've played a number of top down games which use an interesting keyboard/mouse combination. I think for the on foot stuff it would be perfect.

Basically, you would have an aiming reticle, which you move around with the mouse, which determines which way your character points. You could still move north, south, east, and west with the normal buttons, but the character would keep aiming where you wanted him to. I know you've already implemented all this stuff and probably hate the idea of changing it, but I think it would be perfect. For multi, this would be neat..

How's the AI coming? I'm graduating from an AI degree this summer, maybe I could give you a hand or some help if you have problems with some stuff? It'd be cool to try and solve some AI problems for a game. Although you're a smart guy you've probably worked it out for yourself.

I'm thres h  btw.

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